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Is Pakistan the Sole Protector Of Islam and a Muslim?
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Pakistan :
Pakistan and its peoples always makes hue and cry about the exploitations of Muslims in India. What they don’t see or don’t want to see is, that the conditions of Muslims in India is far and far better than in Pakistan or any other Muslim country and here they are enjoying more freedom than any where else in the World.
Did anybody heard about a Christian or Hindu got elected, any where in Pakistan. In India it happens, when a Muslim get elected from a pure Hindu majority area like Pushkar, which is also their most sacred place of pilgrim.
Is it possible a Hindu get elected or head a city like Mecca?
In India its possible that an able person like A.P.J Abdul Kalam [Former President of India]became the first citizen of India.
Is it possible In Pakistan?
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RSS 
Lets not generalize. U still can find non mouslims in high posts in Mouslim countries, but regarding Mecca that will never happen and Mouslims wont allow it as well because it is Holy place that should be run by mouslims only. I dont think u will find a mouslim running a church or temple :)
(Global Perspectives)
Yup thts right, can any Muslim become the head of Vatican No, Can any Muslim become the head of Britain No, not even a catholic can become the head of Britain, can any muslim become the head of USA no...all these countries donot alow this constitutionaly..
(Global Perspectives)
It can happen only in India,where a Muslim can recite and can speak on Ramayan and Gita on a temple Platform.A Muslim can write the script for the serial of Mahabharat and can produce the serial ”Jai Hanuman”.
(Global Perspectives)
That’s right Mona.
but, there are VERY FEW countries where one can find non-Muslims in high posts in Muslim countries. Turkey, Indonesia are one of those few names. But freedom of religion is not there is most Muslim countries.
Regarding Mecca and Saudi Arabia, do you know they don’t allow constructions of temples and churches? And I’ve heard that is Shariah law. Buddha statue was destroyed in Afghanistan and they say it was Shariah law. If Shariah does such things, it ought to be banned completely.
As Ilhan Khan put it, no Muslim can become head at Vatican or Britain or USA (Obama?!), Dr. Kalam (a Muslim by religion) was the president of India a few years back! India still happens to be the most minority friendly country of the world.
but, there are VERY FEW countries where one can find non-Muslims in high posts in Muslim countries. Turkey, Indonesia are one of those few names. But freedom of religion is not there is most Muslim countries.
Regarding Mecca and Saudi Arabia, do you know they don’t allow constructions of temples and churches? And I’ve heard that is Shariah law. Buddha statue was destroyed in Afghanistan and they say it was Shariah law. If Shariah does such things, it ought to be banned completely.
As Ilhan Khan put it, no Muslim can become head at Vatican or Britain or USA (Obama?!), Dr. Kalam (a Muslim by religion) was the president of India a few years back! India still happens to be the most minority friendly country of the world.
(Global Perspectives)
I believe muslims are treated in a better way in India then in Pakistan.Not just politics but in sports too we have muslims as players and the best part is that bollywood is nothing without muslims so how can anybody say that muslims are ill-treated.It is the work of some anti-social elements who cannot see the hindus and muslims live like brothers...
(Global Perspectives)
Yes,you are right Sumit,there are plenty oh Khan’s in our film industry and everybody likes them and the great actors like Dilip Kumar are also Muslim.The best part is all of them are secular and are having relations in Hindu families also.
(Global Perspectives)
What they can see is only riots that took place in India. There have been clashes of Muslims everywhere, in whichever part of the world they are in substantial number. But in India things are better, I must say very very good.
Not only Pakistan, but other Islamic countries where moderate Islam is followed, minorities do not exist as such. And even if they exist, they are under constant oppression. There are only 2/3 good Muslim majority countries.
And why has Islam and Muslims to be protected? is it any political ideology like Nazism?
Not only Pakistan, but other Islamic countries where moderate Islam is followed, minorities do not exist as such. And even if they exist, they are under constant oppression. There are only 2/3 good Muslim majority countries.
And why has Islam and Muslims to be protected? is it any political ideology like Nazism?
(Global Perspectives)
What they can see is only riots that took place in India. There have been clashes of Muslims everywhere, in whichever part of the world they are in substantial number. But in India things are better, I must say very very good.
Not only Pakistan, but other Islamic countries where moderate Islam is followed, minorities do not exist as such. And even if they exist, they are under constant oppression. There are only 2/3 good Muslim majority countries.
And why has Islam and Muslims to be protected? is it any political ideology like Nazism?
Not only Pakistan, but other Islamic countries where moderate Islam is followed, minorities do not exist as such. And even if they exist, they are under constant oppression. There are only 2/3 good Muslim majority countries.
And why has Islam and Muslims to be protected? is it any political ideology like Nazism?
(Global Perspectives)
Not riots, state sponsereed rights, i think u must hav followed the events in Gujrat on your own state media...
(Global Perspectives)
What kind of state sponsored rights? I don’t get you Ilhan Khan?
And what about the state sponsored rights oppressing the minorities in almost all major Islamic countries. Take Pakistan, the minorities went from 12.5% in ’47 to 2% today.
Saudi is the worst. What about their punishment of 1 lakh Riyals for killing a Muslim, only 50,000 in case of Christians, and only 6,000 in case of Hindu, and 2,000 in case of Jews?
Should that be a problem if India constitutes such rights by replacing Hindus and Muslims in the above law???
And what about the state sponsored rights oppressing the minorities in almost all major Islamic countries. Take Pakistan, the minorities went from 12.5% in ’47 to 2% today.
Saudi is the worst. What about their punishment of 1 lakh Riyals for killing a Muslim, only 50,000 in case of Christians, and only 6,000 in case of Hindu, and 2,000 in case of Jews?
Should that be a problem if India constitutes such rights by replacing Hindus and Muslims in the above law???
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya, if there is any state that intantiates religious oppression,it is Saudi Arabia. They are ethically a terrorist nation as their forcibly imposed morals are hard not only on minorities but also on moderate Muslims as well.
(Local Perspectives)
Vijay, I think that extremists, wherever they are to be found, need to instigate hate, as a means of consolidating political control. When your job is to instigate hate, you lose all sense of rationality and perspective. So, for example, even if Muslims are treated well in India, as you suggest, this will not be acknowledged by the extremists, because it does not further their cause. They need the hate to fester, so that they could take adavantage of those negative emotions to recruit new followers, and to energize existing followers. That explains why the midrassas, and mosques, which are controlled by the extremists, are in the habit of teaching hate. It is a way of firing people up, and using them for your own purposes.
We, in the moderate world, should be competing for hearts and minds, in the same way that the extremists are, but with a more positive message, one that makes more sense, and with the empowerment that comes with good paying jobs. India has done that with a strong Muslim middle class, and that example should be followed throughout the Arab world, and the Muslim world as well.
In the final analysis, the ideological extremists will not be able to capture the public’s imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life for themselves. It is incumbent on the West to put that option on the table.
We, in the moderate world, should be competing for hearts and minds, in the same way that the extremists are, but with a more positive message, one that makes more sense, and with the empowerment that comes with good paying jobs. India has done that with a strong Muslim middle class, and that example should be followed throughout the Arab world, and the Muslim world as well.
In the final analysis, the ideological extremists will not be able to capture the public’s imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life for themselves. It is incumbent on the West to put that option on the table.
(Global Perspectives)
amen to your comment,, but how does the west accomplish that?
(Global Perspectives)
In order to solve the three most intractable problems- the threat from ideological extremism, the threat to the environment, and the threat to our economies- the West need to sell us on a Vision of Hope, which have 5 parts to it like the 5 fingers of your hand:
1. Ideology: Use a new ideological framework, An Ideology of Common Sense, to speak to one another with common sense, and with a sense of personal dignity.
2. Investment: Invest in one another to create green technology jobs, jobs which protect the environment, jobs which grow our eocnomies, and jobs which help to neutralize the hold of extremist thinking.
3. Hope: Use an Ideology of Common Sense along with some well placed Investment Dollars to sell people on a Vision of Hope. In short, the answer for world peace is simple enough, Ideology plus Investment equals Hope, and with hope, all things are possible, even the impossible dream of peace.
4. Public Diplomacy: Once you sell a Vision of Hope, you sustain the hope by launching a series of Public Diplomcy Programs which are specifically designed to prop the vision up, and to carry it forward: a program to empower women, a media campaign, a student exchange, a cultural exchange, an expanded version of the Peace Corps, and a series of international conferences on religion, education, the environment, and the eocnomy.
5. Fight: If you already have to fight against the forces of extremism, then fight, and fight hard, but also position the fight within a Vision of Hope. Raise the fight on the ground to a higher moral plain by giving the fight a moral clarity of purpose. People will fight harder once they know what they’re fighting for. We’re not fighting a ”war against terror.” We’re fighting a war to realize a Vision of Hope. There’s a big difference.
By Selling a Vision of Hope, you’ll beat the extremists at their own game. If they talk Jihad, you’ll talk Common Sense. If they invest peanuts in charity, you’ll invest some serious dollars in jobs. If they sell a vision of hope for martyrdom, or paradise, or what have you, you’ll sell a Vision of Hope for peace, prosperity, and freedom. At every turn, you’ll cut them off at the pass, and beat them at their own game.
You are welcome to read and comment more about it on my website www.sellingavisionofhope.org
1. Ideology: Use a new ideological framework, An Ideology of Common Sense, to speak to one another with common sense, and with a sense of personal dignity.
2. Investment: Invest in one another to create green technology jobs, jobs which protect the environment, jobs which grow our eocnomies, and jobs which help to neutralize the hold of extremist thinking.
3. Hope: Use an Ideology of Common Sense along with some well placed Investment Dollars to sell people on a Vision of Hope. In short, the answer for world peace is simple enough, Ideology plus Investment equals Hope, and with hope, all things are possible, even the impossible dream of peace.
4. Public Diplomacy: Once you sell a Vision of Hope, you sustain the hope by launching a series of Public Diplomcy Programs which are specifically designed to prop the vision up, and to carry it forward: a program to empower women, a media campaign, a student exchange, a cultural exchange, an expanded version of the Peace Corps, and a series of international conferences on religion, education, the environment, and the eocnomy.
5. Fight: If you already have to fight against the forces of extremism, then fight, and fight hard, but also position the fight within a Vision of Hope. Raise the fight on the ground to a higher moral plain by giving the fight a moral clarity of purpose. People will fight harder once they know what they’re fighting for. We’re not fighting a ”war against terror.” We’re fighting a war to realize a Vision of Hope. There’s a big difference.
By Selling a Vision of Hope, you’ll beat the extremists at their own game. If they talk Jihad, you’ll talk Common Sense. If they invest peanuts in charity, you’ll invest some serious dollars in jobs. If they sell a vision of hope for martyrdom, or paradise, or what have you, you’ll sell a Vision of Hope for peace, prosperity, and freedom. At every turn, you’ll cut them off at the pass, and beat them at their own game.
You are welcome to read and comment more about it on my website www.sellingavisionofhope.org
(Global Perspectives)
Dear Nissin Dahan,
your comments are quite relevant in present days position of Pakistan.
You are right ,What you teach and deliver to the society returns back to you with interest and that’s happening in Pakistan now.
Pl go through the speech delivered by Quade-Aazam M.A.Zinnah on 11th Aug,1947.
In fact after seeing the position of Bengal,he once reacted that identity as a religious country is not enough and with creation of Pakistan,he tried his best to made it a secular country.
Pl go through my new submission
”Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s Address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan”
The link is
http://vspaliwalkt.instablogs.com/entry/presidential-address-to-the-constituent-assembly-of-pakistan-at-karachi/
your comments are quite relevant in present days position of Pakistan.
You are right ,What you teach and deliver to the society returns back to you with interest and that’s happening in Pakistan now.
Pl go through the speech delivered by Quade-Aazam M.A.Zinnah on 11th Aug,1947.
In fact after seeing the position of Bengal,he once reacted that identity as a religious country is not enough and with creation of Pakistan,he tried his best to made it a secular country.
Pl go through my new submission
”Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s Address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan”
The link is
http://vspaliwalkt.instablogs.com/entry/presidential-address-to-the-constituent-assembly-of-pakistan-at-karachi/
(Global Perspectives)
I agree with what Karim said, ”state should never be a religious state because it then goes on to oppress the minorities in many political ways”.
Its good for us (Indians) that India is not support a particular religion. Otherwise we would have not got the services of the legends for our country like, Zahir Khan, Shahrukh, Aamir, Waheeda Rehmaan, Salmaan Khan, Dr Abul Kalam, Muhammad Kaif, Javed Akhtar... and the list goes on and on...
Its good for us (Indians) that India is not support a particular religion. Otherwise we would have not got the services of the legends for our country like, Zahir Khan, Shahrukh, Aamir, Waheeda Rehmaan, Salmaan Khan, Dr Abul Kalam, Muhammad Kaif, Javed Akhtar... and the list goes on and on...
(Global Perspectives)
Are you sure? India has Hindu militias at north border suppressing Muslim minorities. These militias such as the Monkey Brigade are well know and indirectly linked to the Ministry of Police and security. The killing of well knows Muslim member of Indian parliament, Mr Khan a few years ago, still in my mind. India is fair as a large country can be... but has a lot to improve in regards to equal rights.
(Global Perspectives)
We didnt see any state sponsored riots in Pakistan against the minorities....It has happened in India...Muslims are definitly contributing in evry thng in India thts because lots of them liv thr...Not because constitutionaly the state is secular practically thy are hindu fundamentalists roaming India...Javed Akhtar cant even find a house for rent in Mumbai once coz his hindu neighbors didnt want to see a ”filthy muslim” living near them.....we hear lots of stories of burning ppl alive even christtians missinaries in India...
(Global Perspectives)
If you are talking about J&K in the North then i must say that the muslims are not in minority but in majority there. I agree that we have seen many riots in India on the name of Hindu-Muslim religion and we (peace loving hindus and muslims) have always condemned them.
Either you can see the glass half full or half empty. I prefer to see it half full. That’s my way. You can choose yours.
I have mentioned so many people who are loved by millions of Indians for being themselves and are not hated for being a muslim.
Javed Akhtar is again one example. I will focus on many others that are proudly residing amongst people of different religions peacefully. Some of them are even married to Hindus.
At least their children will be the one who will love both the religions equally.
”My glass is still half full”
Either you can see the glass half full or half empty. I prefer to see it half full. That’s my way. You can choose yours.
I have mentioned so many people who are loved by millions of Indians for being themselves and are not hated for being a muslim.
Javed Akhtar is again one example. I will focus on many others that are proudly residing amongst people of different religions peacefully. Some of them are even married to Hindus.
At least their children will be the one who will love both the religions equally.
”My glass is still half full”
(Global Perspectives)
Sanwali you are right.Some of the best artists are Muslim.i cant recall it right[Lets take help of arvindji] now but there is a famous bhajan which was written by a Muslim and the singer was Mohd Rafi and the music given by Naushad.
(Global Perspectives)
@Ilhan Khan
It is your wrong assumption that Hindu fundamentalists are roaming everywhere. This is the only country here majority is getting a treatment as minority. Agreed, there a few fundamentalist political parties, but they never ever get elected. Why? It’s because people don’t support them. It’s just a few illiterate people from the backward sections of the society who work for them. It’s a pity on us that we have such elements in our society, bu they are bound to get eliminated form the society soon.
And regarding Javed Akhtar’s example, there are aplenty of Muslim localities in India where a Hindu/Sikh/Christian/Jain/Parsi never get a home. It is the habit of Muslims even in US and UK to live in herds, and never stay friendly with non_Muslims. The way Muslim countries don’t keep minorities, Muslim localities don’t allow non_Muslims aka Kafirs. This is not what you can know from Turkey as our media is extremely pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu.
The ”them” vs ”us” ethos of Muslims are rampant everywhere, in whichever part of the world they are in. No wonder this term ”Muslim world” has come into existence, different from the ”human world”.
I mean no offense, this is only about highlighting the other side of the story. As you come from one of the few democracies of the ”Muslim world”, I hope you will take difference of opinion in a positive light.
It is your wrong assumption that Hindu fundamentalists are roaming everywhere. This is the only country here majority is getting a treatment as minority. Agreed, there a few fundamentalist political parties, but they never ever get elected. Why? It’s because people don’t support them. It’s just a few illiterate people from the backward sections of the society who work for them. It’s a pity on us that we have such elements in our society, bu they are bound to get eliminated form the society soon.
And regarding Javed Akhtar’s example, there are aplenty of Muslim localities in India where a Hindu/Sikh/Christian/Jain/Parsi never get a home. It is the habit of Muslims even in US and UK to live in herds, and never stay friendly with non_Muslims. The way Muslim countries don’t keep minorities, Muslim localities don’t allow non_Muslims aka Kafirs. This is not what you can know from Turkey as our media is extremely pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu.
The ”them” vs ”us” ethos of Muslims are rampant everywhere, in whichever part of the world they are in. No wonder this term ”Muslim world” has come into existence, different from the ”human world”.
I mean no offense, this is only about highlighting the other side of the story. As you come from one of the few democracies of the ”Muslim world”, I hope you will take difference of opinion in a positive light.
(Global Perspectives)
@Ilhan Khan
It is your wrong assumption that Hindu fundamentalists are roaming everywhere. This is the only country here majority is getting a treatment as minority. Agreed, there a few fundamentalist political parties, but they never ever get elected. Why? It’s because people don’t support them. It’s just a few illiterate people from the backward sections of the society who work for them. It’s a pity on us that we have such elements in our society, bu they are bound to get eliminated form the society soon.
And regarding Javed Akhtar’s example, there are aplenty of Muslim localities in India where a Hindu/Sikh/Christian/Jain/Parsi never get a home. It is the habit of Muslims even in US and UK to live in herds, and never stay friendly with non_Muslims. The way Muslim countries don’t keep minorities, Muslim localities don’t allow non_Muslims aka Kafirs. This is not what you can know from Turkey as our media is extremely pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu.
The ”them” vs ”us” ethos of Muslims are rampant everywhere, in whichever part of the world they are in. No wonder this term ”Muslim world” has come into existence, different from the ”human world”.
I mean no offense, this is only about highlighting the other side of the story. As you come from one of the few democracies of the ”Muslim world”, I hope you will take difference of opinion in a positive light.
It is your wrong assumption that Hindu fundamentalists are roaming everywhere. This is the only country here majority is getting a treatment as minority. Agreed, there a few fundamentalist political parties, but they never ever get elected. Why? It’s because people don’t support them. It’s just a few illiterate people from the backward sections of the society who work for them. It’s a pity on us that we have such elements in our society, bu they are bound to get eliminated form the society soon.
And regarding Javed Akhtar’s example, there are aplenty of Muslim localities in India where a Hindu/Sikh/Christian/Jain/Parsi never get a home. It is the habit of Muslims even in US and UK to live in herds, and never stay friendly with non_Muslims. The way Muslim countries don’t keep minorities, Muslim localities don’t allow non_Muslims aka Kafirs. This is not what you can know from Turkey as our media is extremely pro-Muslim and anti-Hindu.
The ”them” vs ”us” ethos of Muslims are rampant everywhere, in whichever part of the world they are in. No wonder this term ”Muslim world” has come into existence, different from the ”human world”.
I mean no offense, this is only about highlighting the other side of the story. As you come from one of the few democracies of the ”Muslim world”, I hope you will take difference of opinion in a positive light.
(Global Perspectives)
@Vijay
@ Vijay
There are many bhajans. But I am presenting only three popular bhajans from movies.
1.Man Tarpat Hari Darshan Ko Aaj
Movie : Baiju Bawra ;Lyrics: Shakeel Badayuni; Music : Naushad ;Singer:Rafi
2.Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dharein
Movie :Chitralekha ;Lyrics: Sahir ;Music : Roshan ; Singer : Rafi
3. Tora Man Darpan Kahlayein
Movie : Kajal ; Lyrics : Sahir ; Music : Ravi ; Singer : Asha Bhosle
@ Vijay
There are many bhajans. But I am presenting only three popular bhajans from movies.
1.Man Tarpat Hari Darshan Ko Aaj
Movie : Baiju Bawra ;Lyrics: Shakeel Badayuni; Music : Naushad ;Singer:Rafi
2.Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dharein
Movie :Chitralekha ;Lyrics: Sahir ;Music : Roshan ; Singer : Rafi
3. Tora Man Darpan Kahlayein
Movie : Kajal ; Lyrics : Sahir ; Music : Ravi ; Singer : Asha Bhosle
(Global Perspectives)
@Ameya
1992 Babari Mosque an emblem of heritage (muslim) was destroyed in front of the cameras while secular Indian state was just looking....in response to tht many temples in Pakistan were destroyed the Nawaz Sharif Govt rebuilt those temples..did India rebuild the babari Mosque...do they feel bad abt tht? as far as i knw the mosque still is damaged and the temples in Pak are still offering services...I can only equate such xtreme actions by the Hindu fundamentalists to tht of Talibans in Bamiyan...same destroy some civilizations statues or some bodies mopsque aint it the same...? And wat abt shiv sina??? i dont rem the date but wat did u ppl have to say whn they accepted the responsibility for bombing a vegetable market in Rawalpindi Pakistan, if i m not wrong the secular Indian Govt did nt evn show remorse and didnt even condemn it..was Bal Takray arrested for tht?
1992 Babari Mosque an emblem of heritage (muslim) was destroyed in front of the cameras while secular Indian state was just looking....in response to tht many temples in Pakistan were destroyed the Nawaz Sharif Govt rebuilt those temples..did India rebuild the babari Mosque...do they feel bad abt tht? as far as i knw the mosque still is damaged and the temples in Pak are still offering services...I can only equate such xtreme actions by the Hindu fundamentalists to tht of Talibans in Bamiyan...same destroy some civilizations statues or some bodies mopsque aint it the same...? And wat abt shiv sina??? i dont rem the date but wat did u ppl have to say whn they accepted the responsibility for bombing a vegetable market in Rawalpindi Pakistan, if i m not wrong the secular Indian Govt did nt evn show remorse and didnt even condemn it..was Bal Takray arrested for tht?
(Global Perspectives)
Robbie,
There is no such Hindu Militia or any such agressive or militant group in Hindu community.
In my personal view Hindu,Buddhist and Jains are the ,most peaceful communities in the World
There is no such Hindu Militia or any such agressive or militant group in Hindu community.
In my personal view Hindu,Buddhist and Jains are the ,most peaceful communities in the World
(Global Perspectives)
what do you mean by head... President? Because we have at least one Muslim Senator, and frankly.. religion should not be the issue. Most people should be citizens of their country first, religion should be a private matter.
(Global Perspectives)
@Ilhan Khan
well before asking for something, one has the guts or rather call it sincerity to give. And I bet you have none but only can question something that you will never like to give when it comes out to be your turn.
You asked can a Muslim become the Head of Vatican, but before you ask this just think will your brothers and you allow any Christian or Hindu or Jew for that matter to become the head of Mecca? And whatever will be your answer (though I know what it is) that will be answer to your question as well.
well before asking for something, one has the guts or rather call it sincerity to give. And I bet you have none but only can question something that you will never like to give when it comes out to be your turn.
You asked can a Muslim become the Head of Vatican, but before you ask this just think will your brothers and you allow any Christian or Hindu or Jew for that matter to become the head of Mecca? And whatever will be your answer (though I know what it is) that will be answer to your question as well.
(Global Perspectives)
People living in glass houses should not throw stones.Pakistan is a failed state.It has turned into a huge factory that produces terrorists and noting else,whose sole job is to create menace across the globe.
(Global Perspectives)
Speaking as an actress, most people in our industry look beyond religion... we are a community of artists with the goal of producing the best project, be it a stage play or film. Most actors are spiritual not religious.
(Global Perspectives)
Arvindji,those who are denying the history and their roots may deny anything.
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya And Karim.
Some of the text of Tatvartha-Sutra,which was originated at Taxila now in Pakistan is as under
_Right faith, right knowledge, and right conduct
together consti-tute the path to liberation.
Tattvarthashraddhanam- samyagdarshanam
_Belief in realities ascer-tained as they are is right faith.
Tannisargadadhigamadva
_This right faith is attained by intuition or by acquisition of knowledge.
Jivajivashrava-bandha-samvara-nirjara-mokshastattvam
_The living and the non- living substances, influx, bondage, stoppage, dissociation and liberation from karmas are the seven types of reality.
Nama-sthapana-dravya-bhavatastannyasah
_The realities, right faith etc. are installed by name, representation, substance (poten-tiality) and current state.
Pramana-nayairadhigamah
_Knowledge of the realities, right faith etc. is attained by means pramana (the complete knowledge) and naya (one aspect of the knowledge).
Nirdesha -svamitva- sadhana-dhikarana-sthiti-vidhanatah
_Knowledge is also attained by description, ownership, means, resting place (substratum), duration and division.
Satsankhya-kshetra-sparshana-kalantara-bhavalpa-bahutvaishcha
_Existence, number (enumeration), present abode, extent of space (pervasion), time, interval of time, thought-activity, and reciprocal comparision and also help in the attainment of knowledge.
Mati-srutavadhi-manah paryaya-kevalani gyanam
_Knowledge is of five kinds_ sensory knowledge, scriptural knowledge, clairvoyance, telepathy and omniscience.
Tatpramane
_All of these five kinds of knowledge are pramana i.e.
valid knowledge and are of two types.
Adye paroksham
_The first two kinds of knowledge are indirect knowledge (since these are attained through the sensory organs and the mind).
Pratyakshamanyat
_The remaining three know-ledges constitute direct
knowledge (since these are attained by the soul itself).
Matih smrtih sangya chinta-abhinibodha ityanarthantaram
_Sensory cognition, remem-berance, recognition, induction
and deduction are synonyms for sensory knowledge.
Tadindriyanindriya-nimittam
_Sensory knowledge is attained through five senses and the mind.
Avagrahehavayadharanah
_The four divisions of sensory knowledge are
perception, curosity, judgement
Bahu-bahuvidha-kshipranih-srata(a)nukta-dhruvanam setaranam
_The subdivisions of each of these are many, many kinds, quick, hidden, unexpressed, lasting and their opposites.
Arthasya
_These are the attributes of substances (objects)
and known through sensory knowledge.
Vyanjanasyavagrahah
_Indistinct things are known only through perception sensory knowledge.
Na chakshuranindriyabhyam
_Perception of indistinct things does not arise
by means of the eyes and the mind.
Shrutam matipurvam dvyaneka-dvadasabhedam
_Scriptural knowledge is preceded by sensory knowledge
and is of two kinds, twelve kinds, and many kinds.
Some of the text of Tatvartha-Sutra,which was originated at Taxila now in Pakistan is as under
_Right faith, right knowledge, and right conduct
together consti-tute the path to liberation.
Tattvarthashraddhanam- samyagdarshanam
_Belief in realities ascer-tained as they are is right faith.
Tannisargadadhigamadva
_This right faith is attained by intuition or by acquisition of knowledge.
Jivajivashrava-bandha-samvara-nirjara-mokshastattvam
_The living and the non- living substances, influx, bondage, stoppage, dissociation and liberation from karmas are the seven types of reality.
Nama-sthapana-dravya-bhavatastannyasah
_The realities, right faith etc. are installed by name, representation, substance (poten-tiality) and current state.
Pramana-nayairadhigamah
_Knowledge of the realities, right faith etc. is attained by means pramana (the complete knowledge) and naya (one aspect of the knowledge).
Nirdesha -svamitva- sadhana-dhikarana-sthiti-vidhanatah
_Knowledge is also attained by description, ownership, means, resting place (substratum), duration and division.
Satsankhya-kshetra-sparshana-kalantara-bhavalpa-bahutvaishcha
_Existence, number (enumeration), present abode, extent of space (pervasion), time, interval of time, thought-activity, and reciprocal comparision and also help in the attainment of knowledge.
Mati-srutavadhi-manah paryaya-kevalani gyanam
_Knowledge is of five kinds_ sensory knowledge, scriptural knowledge, clairvoyance, telepathy and omniscience.
Tatpramane
_All of these five kinds of knowledge are pramana i.e.
valid knowledge and are of two types.
Adye paroksham
_The first two kinds of knowledge are indirect knowledge (since these are attained through the sensory organs and the mind).
Pratyakshamanyat
_The remaining three know-ledges constitute direct
knowledge (since these are attained by the soul itself).
Matih smrtih sangya chinta-abhinibodha ityanarthantaram
_Sensory cognition, remem-berance, recognition, induction
and deduction are synonyms for sensory knowledge.
Tadindriyanindriya-nimittam
_Sensory knowledge is attained through five senses and the mind.
Avagrahehavayadharanah
_The four divisions of sensory knowledge are
perception, curosity, judgement
Bahu-bahuvidha-kshipranih-srata(a)nukta-dhruvanam setaranam
_The subdivisions of each of these are many, many kinds, quick, hidden, unexpressed, lasting and their opposites.
Arthasya
_These are the attributes of substances (objects)
and known through sensory knowledge.
Vyanjanasyavagrahah
_Indistinct things are known only through perception sensory knowledge.
Na chakshuranindriyabhyam
_Perception of indistinct things does not arise
by means of the eyes and the mind.
Shrutam matipurvam dvyaneka-dvadasabhedam
_Scriptural knowledge is preceded by sensory knowledge
and is of two kinds, twelve kinds, and many kinds.
(Global Perspectives)
Vikas,in some Muslim countries,others don’t have right to perform even their last rites.
(Global Perspectives)
@Vijay
There are many bhajans. But I am presenting only three popular bhajans from movies.
1.Man Tarpat Hari Darshan Ko Aaj
Movie : Baiju Bawra ;Lyrics: Shakeel Badayuni; Music : Naushad ;Singer:Rafi
2.Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dharein
Movie :Chitralekha ;Lyrics: Sahir ;Music : Roshan ; Singer : Rafi
3. Tora Man Darpan Kahlayein
Movie : Kajal ; Lyrics : Sahir ; Music : Ravi ; Singer : Asha Bhosle
There are many bhajans. But I am presenting only three popular bhajans from movies.
1.Man Tarpat Hari Darshan Ko Aaj
Movie : Baiju Bawra ;Lyrics: Shakeel Badayuni; Music : Naushad ;Singer:Rafi
2.Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dharein
Movie :Chitralekha ;Lyrics: Sahir ;Music : Roshan ; Singer : Rafi
3. Tora Man Darpan Kahlayein
Movie : Kajal ; Lyrics : Sahir ; Music : Ravi ; Singer : Asha Bhosle
(Global Perspectives)
Thanks Arvindji,all these songs are so beautifully written and presented,gives a soothing impact.India is the land of Rahim,Kabir,Kaifi Ajmi and of many Nawabs,poets and Shairs who havr written many Bhajans.
Even Iqbal has written ”Sare Jahan se achcha here”.
The Worlds biggest market and sculptures centeres is at Khajanewale ka Rasta,at Chandpole,Jaipur,where most of the Idols/statues makers are Muslim.
Even Iqbal has written ”Sare Jahan se achcha here”.
The Worlds biggest market and sculptures centeres is at Khajanewale ka Rasta,at Chandpole,Jaipur,where most of the Idols/statues makers are Muslim.
(Global Perspectives)
Yes ,Alhamd du lilah
(Local Perspectives)
Vijay,
I tried to make the minimum statement in my comment;and commented only because you asked me to.But you obviously want me to be more descriptive;so here goes.
It means what it says,Pakistan was created for protection of the Islamic way of life in the sub-continent.if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid.
A journalist should not make propoganda,but should be objective in his statements.What can I say about your post when it has such
obviously incorrect statements as:Muslims in India are far and far better than in Pakistan or any other Muslim country and here they are enjoying more freedom than any where else in the World.
One day I will write an article about the Muslims of India.Insha Allah!
The President of India as you know in only a figure head -may be if one day you had a prime minister of India who is a Muslim you would have a right to boast.
I tried to make the minimum statement in my comment;and commented only because you asked me to.But you obviously want me to be more descriptive;so here goes.
It means what it says,Pakistan was created for protection of the Islamic way of life in the sub-continent.if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid.
A journalist should not make propoganda,but should be objective in his statements.What can I say about your post when it has such
obviously incorrect statements as:Muslims in India are far and far better than in Pakistan or any other Muslim country and here they are enjoying more freedom than any where else in the World.
One day I will write an article about the Muslims of India.Insha Allah!
The President of India as you know in only a figure head -may be if one day you had a prime minister of India who is a Muslim you would have a right to boast.
(Local Perspectives)
Vijay,
I tried to make the minimum statement in my comment;and commented only because you asked me to.But you obviously want me to be more descriptive;so here goes.
It means what it says,Pakistan was created for protection of the Islamic way of life in the sub-continent.if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid.
A journalist should not make propoganda,but should be objective in his statements.What can I say about your post when it has such
obviously incorrect statements as:Muslims in India are far and far better than in Pakistan or any other Muslim country and here they are enjoying more freedom than any where else in the World.
One day I will write an article about the Muslims of India.Insha Allah!
The President of India as you know in only a figure head -may be if one day you had a prime minister of India who is a Muslim you would have a right to boast.
I tried to make the minimum statement in my comment;and commented only because you asked me to.But you obviously want me to be more descriptive;so here goes.
It means what it says,Pakistan was created for protection of the Islamic way of life in the sub-continent.if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid.
A journalist should not make propoganda,but should be objective in his statements.What can I say about your post when it has such
obviously incorrect statements as:Muslims in India are far and far better than in Pakistan or any other Muslim country and here they are enjoying more freedom than any where else in the World.
One day I will write an article about the Muslims of India.Insha Allah!
The President of India as you know in only a figure head -may be if one day you had a prime minister of India who is a Muslim you would have a right to boast.
(Local Perspectives)
I totally agree, that India is a secular state that’s why the incident of Babri masjid happened. and GUJRAT incident is also not too old.
(Local Perspectives)
I totally agree Islam is a religion of tolerance and Muslims are secular. no need to talk about Islamic countries and Shariah. Incident of babri masjid happened centuries ago when a temple was destroyed and mosque built over. reclaiming it isn’t secularism? When Muslims go and start burning homes of other communities, they were just given a damn good response.
In case of Godhra, who burned the train first? What you get thru media is a half baked picture that is always pro-Muslim. (it has to be pro-Muslim, else Muslims start burning homes of other communities) The response given was a damn dirty one. This is not Nigeria or Sudan.
In case of Godhra, who burned the train first? What you get thru media is a half baked picture that is always pro-Muslim. (it has to be pro-Muslim, else Muslims start burning homes of other communities) The response given was a damn dirty one. This is not Nigeria or Sudan.
(Global Perspectives)
I totally agree Islam is a religion of tolerance and Muslims are secular. no
need to talk about Islamic countries and Shariah. Incident of babri masjid
happened centuries ago when a temple was destroyed and mosque built over.
reclaiming it isn’t secularism? When Muslims go and start burning homes of
other communities, they were just given a damn good response.
In case of Godhra, who burned the train first? What you get thru media is a
half baked picture that is always pro-Muslim. (it has to be pro-Muslim, else
Muslims start burning homes of other communities) The response given was a
damn dirty one. This is not Nigeria or Sudan.
2009/1/7 Abid
(Global Perspectives)
Abid,every intellectual,educated and civilised Indian criticised what happened in Godhara/Gujarat and other incidents of communal nature.
One thing more, Indians never intervened or reacts on the affair of other country,then why Pakistanis are so much worried about only Muslims.Why no one ever made a remark on the conditions of Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley.
One thing more, Indians never intervened or reacts on the affair of other country,then why Pakistanis are so much worried about only Muslims.Why no one ever made a remark on the conditions of Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley.
(Global Perspectives)
@Ameya
Ur own army personel was involved in Godhra incident
Ur own army personel was involved in Godhra incident
(Global Perspectives)
Karim,now with so much interaction within international community,the whole of the World is coming closure.If any country imposes their culture on tourist and visitors,then its also against human right.You are right,Saudi Arab violets the most.
(Global Perspectives)
Incognito,Indian artists are also like that.This is the most sacred land on the planet earth,where besides Hindus,so many other sects came into being like Baudh,Jain,Sikh etc and Cristian and Islam also got acceptability here,so its a garden with all kinds of flowers.
(Global Perspectives)
and Buddhism...., Vijay.. :-)
And yes, artists all over the world, happen to be more tolerant, for some reason.
(Global Perspectives)
Yes,Incognito Buddhism also[we say it as Baudh] originated in India,even its been said that Jesus Christ also learned about Buddhism here.
(Global Perspectives)
Hassan,I’m not agree,what you are saying about India.
Some of the most sacred places for Muslims are still here in India.
Dargah of Salim Chishti,where Muslims,Hindus and people of other faith visits regularly.
President of India,is also the supreme commander of Army and he’s capable of even removing or suspending the Govt.
Here in India,a person is first a Indian,cast and creed doesn’t count much.
No religion and caste spreads any kind of violence.
And why only Pakistan is worried about the Muslims of India,did you heard any Muslim of India is making any complain,that there human right are getting violated in India.
Some of the most sacred places for Muslims are still here in India.
Dargah of Salim Chishti,where Muslims,Hindus and people of other faith visits regularly.
President of India,is also the supreme commander of Army and he’s capable of even removing or suspending the Govt.
Here in India,a person is first a Indian,cast and creed doesn’t count much.
No religion and caste spreads any kind of violence.
And why only Pakistan is worried about the Muslims of India,did you heard any Muslim of India is making any complain,that there human right are getting violated in India.
(Global Perspectives)
Vijay’
Dargah is not a sacred place of Islam.It’s only the final abode of a man who is recognized as holy and a lover of God in his life time .He could be from any religion-all he needs is the right faith and actions or deeds.
It could be any holy man of any religion;and of course people of all religions who recognize him as such would visit,Woun’t they?
Dargah is not a sacred place of Islam.It’s only the final abode of a man who is recognized as holy and a lover of God in his life time .He could be from any religion-all he needs is the right faith and actions or deeds.
It could be any holy man of any religion;and of course people of all religions who recognize him as such would visit,Woun’t they?
(Local Perspectives)
Yes, Hassan you are only looking only one side of the story.
”if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid”
may I ask why are there so many mosques safe in every nook and corner of India?
Just one incident of RECLAIMING one temple and you think all mosques would have met that fate.
Also, if a separate nation was created, forget the oppresion of hindu community in Pakistan, but what about Shias and Ahmeddiyas?
Waiting for your correct post on Muslims in India (even after sitting out of India).. heh..
”if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid”
may I ask why are there so many mosques safe in every nook and corner of India?
Just one incident of RECLAIMING one temple and you think all mosques would have met that fate.
Also, if a separate nation was created, forget the oppresion of hindu community in Pakistan, but what about Shias and Ahmeddiyas?
Waiting for your correct post on Muslims in India (even after sitting out of India).. heh..
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya,
Not only am I a shia,but also originally I am from Lucknow.So I am very well aware of both the state of Muslims in India,as I still have many relatives there and I know the horrible state they are in.besides that your own stastics bear me out-Muslims of India are the worst of community of India.
As far as Shia’s in Pakistan are concerned,as I said I am a Shia and we have no problems.Certainly havn’t have had any thing like the massacres you do of Kashmiris,Muslims ,Sikhs and Christians and Dalits under patronage of your armed forces,police and politicians in India.
The mosques even in India are safe because of Pakistan.If we hadn’t been there you would have finished all Muslims by now.
I am quite clear about that after the inter-action I have had with ’educated’Indians on Instablogs -specially this last month.
Not only am I a shia,but also originally I am from Lucknow.So I am very well aware of both the state of Muslims in India,as I still have many relatives there and I know the horrible state they are in.besides that your own stastics bear me out-Muslims of India are the worst of community of India.
As far as Shia’s in Pakistan are concerned,as I said I am a Shia and we have no problems.Certainly havn’t have had any thing like the massacres you do of Kashmiris,Muslims ,Sikhs and Christians and Dalits under patronage of your armed forces,police and politicians in India.
The mosques even in India are safe because of Pakistan.If we hadn’t been there you would have finished all Muslims by now.
I am quite clear about that after the inter-action I have had with ’educated’Indians on Instablogs -specially this last month.
(Local Perspectives)
I mean no offense behind this. Well, but minorities in Pakistan are not safe either. And worst, they can’t even raise voice as in any democracy.
The percentage of minorities alone has come down from 12.5% of 1947 to 2% in 2008.
This is what one of the most authentic source of Islam has to say: Wikiislam
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims_in_Muslim_countries#Pakistan
Let’s hope things turn out for the better gradually as the awareness for economic improvement increases. Pakistan should try joining WTO.
The percentage of minorities alone has come down from 12.5% of 1947 to 2% in 2008.
This is what one of the most authentic source of Islam has to say: Wikiislam
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims_in_Muslim_countries#Pakistan
Let’s hope things turn out for the better gradually as the awareness for economic improvement increases. Pakistan should try joining WTO.
(Global Perspectives)
One incident!!!!!
read your own newspapers at least!!!!1
read your own newspapers at least!!!!1
(Local Perspectives)
Yes, Hassan you are only looking only one side of the story.
”if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid”
may I ask why are there so many mosques safe in every nook and corner of India?
Just one incident of RECLAIMING one temple and you think all mosques would have met that fate.
Also, if a separate nation was created, forget the oppresion of hindu community in Pakistan, but what about Shias and Ahmeddiyas?
Waiting for your correct post on Muslims in India (even after sitting out of India).. heh..
”if it hadn’t been created all muslim mosques would have met the fate of Babri masjid”
may I ask why are there so many mosques safe in every nook and corner of India?
Just one incident of RECLAIMING one temple and you think all mosques would have met that fate.
Also, if a separate nation was created, forget the oppresion of hindu community in Pakistan, but what about Shias and Ahmeddiyas?
Waiting for your correct post on Muslims in India (even after sitting out of India).. heh..
(Global Perspectives)
Yes Ameya you are right.Most of the Masjids were constructed after destroying the temples.I don’t wants to go deep into the controversial Babri Masjid issue,but everybody knows,even majority of Muslims that there was already a temple there.
When so many statues,carved figures and continuous worship was going on at Ramlala temple,then why Muslim claims for such site and its against Islam also for offering prayer at such place.
Why Muslims choose and destroyed the temples of the most sacred sites of Hindus.
At Ayodhya,the birth place of Ram,At Kashi Visvanath temple,they constructed Gyanvapi masjid and at Krishna Janmbhumi also,they constructed a Mosque.
Is it possible that the Muslims would allow to construct a temple near ”Kaba” for Hindus.
When so many statues,carved figures and continuous worship was going on at Ramlala temple,then why Muslim claims for such site and its against Islam also for offering prayer at such place.
Why Muslims choose and destroyed the temples of the most sacred sites of Hindus.
At Ayodhya,the birth place of Ram,At Kashi Visvanath temple,they constructed Gyanvapi masjid and at Krishna Janmbhumi also,they constructed a Mosque.
Is it possible that the Muslims would allow to construct a temple near ”Kaba” for Hindus.
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya,everyone must read this,Thanks
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims_in_Muslim_countries#Pakistan
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims_in_Muslim_countries#Pakistan
(Global Perspectives)
Every one should read this too...
Islam is a religion of mercy to all people, both Muslims and non-Muslims. The Prophet was described as being a mercy in the Quran due to the message he brought for humanity:
“And We have not sent you but as a mercy to all the worlds.” (Quran 21:107)
here is the link,
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/
Islam is a religion of mercy to all people, both Muslims and non-Muslims. The Prophet was described as being a mercy in the Quran due to the message he brought for humanity:
“And We have not sent you but as a mercy to all the worlds.” (Quran 21:107)
here is the link,
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/
(Local Perspectives)
@Vijay
a humble request, please don’t spread false accusations on Islam. this wiki is not written by any Muslim, and has made many mistakes in verses.
If you want to know truth read QURAN by yourself. and read the translation approved by some MUSLIM scholars....
a humble request, please don’t spread false accusations on Islam. this wiki is not written by any Muslim, and has made many mistakes in verses.
If you want to know truth read QURAN by yourself. and read the translation approved by some MUSLIM scholars....
(Local Perspectives)
”Waiting for your correct post on Muslims in India”. Ok since you insist on it ;i shall write an entire post soon.
(Local Perspectives)
Hassan,how you can speak like this about a country like India and what you said that the Mosque and Muslims in India are safe due to Pakistan.
Don’t forget that so many Muslims were also killed during many bomb blast and Mumbai attack.
With how many educated persons of India you have interacted ,who are agree with your views.
Its good to learn that you are a Shia of Lucknow,but do you know that,Shia’s of Lucknow were the first who condemn Pakistan for patronage to terrorist and for organising terrorist acts against India.
Don’t forget that so many Muslims were also killed during many bomb blast and Mumbai attack.
With how many educated persons of India you have interacted ,who are agree with your views.
Its good to learn that you are a Shia of Lucknow,but do you know that,Shia’s of Lucknow were the first who condemn Pakistan for patronage to terrorist and for organising terrorist acts against India.
(Global Perspectives)
@Vijay
Pakistanis prefer to live in a fool’s paradise.Please don’t hurt their feelings by calling a spade a spade !!!
Pakistanis prefer to live in a fool’s paradise.Please don’t hurt their feelings by calling a spade a spade !!!
(Global Perspectives)
Arvind,the reactions of the govt of Pakistan on Mumbai attacks and their statements on Kasab are not firm.
They have taken plenty of time even in admitting that Kasab is a Pak national.
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya,its good that there are person like Asma Jehangir,Jahida Hina,Najam Sethi,Burney in Pakistan,who always speaks about the problems and concerns of Minorities in Pakistan.
Now a new directive has come out in most areas of N.W.F.P. by the Taliban militants. They are asking parents of the grown up girls to marry them to militants or otherwise face dire consequences.
Militants wants more and more young girls for their pleasures in Pakistan.
Now a new directive has come out in most areas of N.W.F.P. by the Taliban militants. They are asking parents of the grown up girls to marry them to militants or otherwise face dire consequences.
Militants wants more and more young girls for their pleasures in Pakistan.
(Global Perspectives)
I agree that it is not possible for a hindu to get equal rights in Pakistan as the muslims get in India. Leave alone the hindus even the muslims who have migrated from India to Pakistan are treated as Mujahirs and are used as tools for spreading terrorism in India and poisoning the minds of the muslim youths living in India.
(Global Perspectives)
You are absolutely right,forget about Hindus even ordinary Muslims like migrant Muslims[Mohajirs],Ahmediya,Kayamkhanis and Pashtuns are treated badly in Pakistan.
Now only few Temples,Gurudwara’s and Churches exists in Pakistan and what they are teaching is not their actual History.
Now only few Temples,Gurudwara’s and Churches exists in Pakistan and what they are teaching is not their actual History.
(Global Perspectives)
People like Hasan are the ones who are creating religious disparity for their own vested interest. They are letting History repeat itself as they feel that all the people should either accept Islam as the sole religion or the Kafirs should be put to death. But I am sorry to say that they do not know the true meaning of Jihad which means fighting against evil and not against the people who follow hinduism or any other religion.
(Global Perspectives)
Mandira Gupta,
Please read my next post then we shall discuss this.It will be about Hindu fascist mentality;
Please read my next post then we shall discuss this.It will be about Hindu fascist mentality;
(Local Perspectives)
No,Pakistan is not the sole protector of Islam and a Muslim because if it had been so then all the muslims would have settled in Pakistan and then countries like India and other non muslim countries would have barred the muslims from entering into any post of importance whether in defence or in fine arts or in politics. If we take the example of India we will find that there are many muslims who are in renowned positions. Why go far? The President’s seat in India was held by Dr. Zakir Hussein and Dr. Abul Kalam Azad. Even in other fields you will find muslims who have gained prominence and fame.
(Global Perspectives)
Yes you are right Mandira.India doesn’t differentiate any person on basis of cast and creed.
(Global Perspectives)
To conclude ths...Ya a strong Pakistan means strong Muslim ummah...tht is a country to which muslims can look for help...many ppl including us has done tht in past...unfortunately Paks internal problems and a litle help from your RAW has weakend tht nation...we pray tht Pak alwaz remains stable...
(Global Perspectives)
@Sanwali
Well said.
The greater truth is that menace is being created by people in league with authentic versions of Quran and not by people in league with translated version.
Well said.
The greater truth is that menace is being created by people in league with authentic versions of Quran and not by people in league with translated version.
(Global Perspectives)
Thank you Ilhan khan,
And don’t worry,Pakistan will always remain the becon for the Muslim ummah.One day all the leaders will get on the same line-and the day is not far.
Meanwhile all this feverish anti-Pakistan posting by Indians is just an attempt by them to re-gain their lost confidence.Their governments posturing is for the same reason.
Once they realise they have no choice but to co-operate with Pakistan -perhaps they will be better off.If not,and if they try anything funny, they will find out what a mistake they made.
And don’t worry,Pakistan will always remain the becon for the Muslim ummah.One day all the leaders will get on the same line-and the day is not far.
Meanwhile all this feverish anti-Pakistan posting by Indians is just an attempt by them to re-gain their lost confidence.Their governments posturing is for the same reason.
Once they realise they have no choice but to co-operate with Pakistan -perhaps they will be better off.If not,and if they try anything funny, they will find out what a mistake they made.
(Local Perspectives)
Hassan,I never expected such comments from a person like you
”Thank you Ilhan khan,
And don’t worry,Pakistan will always remain the becon for the Muslim ummah.One day all the leaders will get on the same line-and the day is not far.
Meanwhile all this feverish anti-Pakistan posting by Indians is just an attempt by them to re-gain their lost confidence.Their governments posturing is for the same reason.
Once they realise they have no choice but to co-operate with Pakistan -perhaps they will be better off.If not,and if they try anything funny, they will find out what a mistake they made.”
Today on a channel,I’ve seen a discussion on ”Vibrat Gujarat” a summit cocluded few days back,in which most of the Industrialist praised Narendra Modi.
On the show on TV,the person who was supporting Modi was a Muslim.So here in India cast doesn’t count much.
”Thank you Ilhan khan,
And don’t worry,Pakistan will always remain the becon for the Muslim ummah.One day all the leaders will get on the same line-and the day is not far.
Meanwhile all this feverish anti-Pakistan posting by Indians is just an attempt by them to re-gain their lost confidence.Their governments posturing is for the same reason.
Once they realise they have no choice but to co-operate with Pakistan -perhaps they will be better off.If not,and if they try anything funny, they will find out what a mistake they made.”
Today on a channel,I’ve seen a discussion on ”Vibrat Gujarat” a summit cocluded few days back,in which most of the Industrialist praised Narendra Modi.
On the show on TV,the person who was supporting Modi was a Muslim.So here in India cast doesn’t count much.
(Global Perspectives)
Some days back prominent Muslim scholar organized a seminar in Hyderabad[India].
This issue also has been raised that Why Pakistan speaks too much about the concern of Muslims of India and don’t issue any statement when the human rights of their own citizens gets violated in Arab countries.
This issue also has been raised that Why Pakistan speaks too much about the concern of Muslims of India and don’t issue any statement when the human rights of their own citizens gets violated in Arab countries.
(Global Perspectives)
Sorry Ilhan for this reply. I do not really wish to go into ’you vs me’ game.
Babri Mosque which you are talking of, is proven was built over a
temple. It was also closed for praying. And I wonder, something built
after demolishing a place of worship is a place of heritage.
The reconstruction in Pakistan which you so call is no where reported.
And sorry, unaware about the Shiv Sena thing. They will claim whatever
they wish to.
And where were army men involved in Gujarat? I know that Pakistan
knows about stories of crushing of minorities in India with spice. In
the way, people add up their own spice and tell it to people. Show any
source for your army Gujarat claim please. The Wikiilslam link also
gives report about Pakistan Army’s involvement in one of it’s reports.
I will have absolutely no wonder if you say 26/11 was done by Indians,
or any other conspiracy theory for that matter.
(Global Perspectives)
So why don’t muslims(EXTREMISTS) follow Quran themselves and stop spreading
terrorism.
(Global Perspectives)
Sanwali,Pakistan is turning into a mass production center of Terrorist.
Pakistan instead of stopping such breeding at their own land,encouraging such activities.
Terminating terrorist at their hideout is the only way,if Pakistan continue with such activities.
Pakistan instead of stopping such breeding at their own land,encouraging such activities.
Terminating terrorist at their hideout is the only way,if Pakistan continue with such activities.
(Global Perspectives)
Abid,no I’m not accusing Islam or any other religion,after all religion or holy books are created to make societies more civilise and spreading the message of peace and love.
Don’t you think the condition of Pakistan is getting worse and worst day by day.
Don’t you think the condition of Pakistan is getting worse and worst day by day.
(Global Perspectives)
Thank you Vijay for not accusing any religion.
Yes, You are correct the conditions in Pakistan are getting worse and worse day by day.
and I believe this will increase. because of the double standards of WORLD.
life if you see the link here,
http://mshafiq.instablogs.com/entry/gaza-horror-large-photo-gallery-of-gaza-massacre-by-israel/
After this mess, every muslim will think to destroy israel.....and it will make conditions worse every where.
Yes, You are correct the conditions in Pakistan are getting worse and worse day by day.
and I believe this will increase. because of the double standards of WORLD.
life if you see the link here,
http://mshafiq.instablogs.com/entry/gaza-horror-large-photo-gallery-of-gaza-massacre-by-israel/
After this mess, every muslim will think to destroy israel.....and it will make conditions worse every where.
(Local Perspectives)
Abid, there is absolutely no question of accusing any religion. I suppose the meaning of the word ’Islam’ itself means peace.
But, i disagree with what you have written here regarding israel Palestine issue.
”After this mess, every Muslim will think to destroy Israel ”
no doubt such attacks on civilians are worth criticism. But, your statement implies 2 points which i absolutely would hate.
First, by saying every Muslim will now think to destroy Israel, you imply that Muslims are violent people by default.
Second, what if your line of thinking is also adopted by non-Muslims? Wouldn’t every kafir think of destroying Muslims, after so many terrorist strikes and atrocities???
If you believe in the wonderful verse you gave here, please stop thinking in the
”them” vs ”us” manner. It is such ethos that divide humanity.
But, i disagree with what you have written here regarding israel Palestine issue.
”After this mess, every Muslim will think to destroy Israel ”
no doubt such attacks on civilians are worth criticism. But, your statement implies 2 points which i absolutely would hate.
First, by saying every Muslim will now think to destroy Israel, you imply that Muslims are violent people by default.
Second, what if your line of thinking is also adopted by non-Muslims? Wouldn’t every kafir think of destroying Muslims, after so many terrorist strikes and atrocities???
If you believe in the wonderful verse you gave here, please stop thinking in the
”them” vs ”us” manner. It is such ethos that divide humanity.
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya Waghmare:
So what is the solution to this terror activity done by ISRAEL?
Please please don’t say UN is the solution...every one knows UN’s role in this fight.
So what is the solution to this terror activity done by ISRAEL?
Please please don’t say UN is the solution...every one knows UN’s role in this fight.
(Local Perspectives)
Ameya,I had interaction with many Muslim friends on such topics.First they try to avoid such discussions and if they agree,they don’t wants to listen any thing against.
Yesterday,in an horrible incident six Muslim youth enter in a house,within temple premises,and gang raped the wife of the Pujari,who was alone that time.
Even though Kota is a Hindu dominated area,such incidents by Muslim criminals,disturbs the peace and harmony in the area.
In my personal view more than 90% criminals are Muslims.
Yesterday,in an horrible incident six Muslim youth enter in a house,within temple premises,and gang raped the wife of the Pujari,who was alone that time.
Even though Kota is a Hindu dominated area,such incidents by Muslim criminals,disturbs the peace and harmony in the area.
In my personal view more than 90% criminals are Muslims.
(Global Perspectives)
A two-state solution is the only way to go. Hamas’ stand of not
recognizing Israel at all was completely wrong. Israel has become an
established country, and the original UN plan of 1948 has to be
implemented.
This is possible with democratic, secular and modern organizations
like Fatah that at least recognize Israel and are willing for a
progressive Palestine. Hitting Israel back because it hit you, or
eliminating Hamas’ because it does not recognize Israel will only add
up to the tensions.
Anwar Saadat, the president of Egypt who in 1975 had opted for a peace
deal with Israel was assassinated for this deal. Some people don’t
want peace.
I have given up hopes on this issue. Probably, it is a never ending issue.
(Global Perspectives)
Abid,what Ameya is saying is absolutely right.All relgions are meant to creare peace and harmony.
Here in India you’ll find many families which practice many religion under a single roof.
Here in India you’ll find many families which practice many religion under a single roof.
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya,
Anwar Sadat,Marshal Tito and Nehru tried their best for the peace in that region.
Anwar Sadat,Marshal Tito and Nehru tried their best for the peace in that region.
(Global Perspectives)
Arvindji,did you gone through the link suggested by Ameya
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims_in_Muslim_countries#Pakistan
In this subcontinent Hindu’s suffered the most and those who are killing and attacking Hindus are Ex HIndus.
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims_in_Muslim_countries#Pakistan
In this subcontinent Hindu’s suffered the most and those who are killing and attacking Hindus are Ex HIndus.
(Global Perspectives)
Arvindji and Sanwali,
Koran is not a book which spreads peace,there are some text which says
1. Koran Sura 5:51 commands Muslims not to take Jews and Christians (infidels) as friends
2. Koran Sura 9:29 commands Muslims to fight against Jews and Christians until they either submit to Allah or die by the sword.
3. Koran Sura 2:65-66 and Sura 5:60 contain references to Jews as “apes and swine to be despised and rejected.”
Koran is not a book which spreads peace,there are some text which says
1. Koran Sura 5:51 commands Muslims not to take Jews and Christians (infidels) as friends
2. Koran Sura 9:29 commands Muslims to fight against Jews and Christians until they either submit to Allah or die by the sword.
3. Koran Sura 2:65-66 and Sura 5:60 contain references to Jews as “apes and swine to be despised and rejected.”
(Global Perspectives)
Vijay, and there are plenty more where that came from. Sad, but true. Hopefully, most Muslims don’t pay attention to those sections.
(Global Perspectives)
Vijay , if I want to know about Hinduism, I would not go to anti-Hinduism sites. I would read the Hindus’ holy books or maybe have discussions with Hindus (not anti-Hindus) about their faith.
Going to anti-Hinduism sites, or picking verses out of contexts is not what someone who really wants to learn and find the truth would do. It is not smart. It just shows you let others think for you.
The verses you quoted above, you picked them out of their contexts. They do not have the meanings that you think they do.
the first verse you quoted ””O believers, do not take the Jews and the Christians as your friends and protectors, they are friends of each other. And whoever makes them a friend then he is from amongst them. Verily God does not guide the unjust people”
This is directed to a specific group of Jews and Christians whose attitude has been explained in this verse : ”O you who believe! do not take for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke” so it is directed to certain Jews and Christians, those who mock and ridicule, not in general.
As for the second verse, Muslims had to spread the religion of God, but if someone stood in their ways to prevent them from accomplishing their mission, they had the right to fight back. So it means fight those who initiate aggression. It does not mean just kill those whose beliefs are not the same as yours cause killing the innocent is forbidden in Islam and also Muslims believe ”Let there be no compulsion in religion” Quran 2: 256.
The last verse you quoted, the Jews described as swine and apes, this is directed ,again, to a certain group of Jews.
I suggest you study something before you criticize it. And I suggest you study Islam from its sources and then judge by your self better than copying and pasting from anti-Islam sites. Misquoting verses will not harm me or other Muslims cause we do know our religion. It just shows how some non-Muslims let their biased media and people around them control their minds.
And one more thing, I still don’t see the point in the title of your article. You just want to prove that Pakistan is a country that finances and supports terrorists which’s not true. Terrorists are terrorists. They do not belong to a religion or a country. And generalization is not fair by the way.
Going to anti-Hinduism sites, or picking verses out of contexts is not what someone who really wants to learn and find the truth would do. It is not smart. It just shows you let others think for you.
The verses you quoted above, you picked them out of their contexts. They do not have the meanings that you think they do.
the first verse you quoted ””O believers, do not take the Jews and the Christians as your friends and protectors, they are friends of each other. And whoever makes them a friend then he is from amongst them. Verily God does not guide the unjust people”
This is directed to a specific group of Jews and Christians whose attitude has been explained in this verse : ”O you who believe! do not take for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke” so it is directed to certain Jews and Christians, those who mock and ridicule, not in general.
As for the second verse, Muslims had to spread the religion of God, but if someone stood in their ways to prevent them from accomplishing their mission, they had the right to fight back. So it means fight those who initiate aggression. It does not mean just kill those whose beliefs are not the same as yours cause killing the innocent is forbidden in Islam and also Muslims believe ”Let there be no compulsion in religion” Quran 2: 256.
The last verse you quoted, the Jews described as swine and apes, this is directed ,again, to a certain group of Jews.
I suggest you study something before you criticize it. And I suggest you study Islam from its sources and then judge by your self better than copying and pasting from anti-Islam sites. Misquoting verses will not harm me or other Muslims cause we do know our religion. It just shows how some non-Muslims let their biased media and people around them control their minds.
And one more thing, I still don’t see the point in the title of your article. You just want to prove that Pakistan is a country that finances and supports terrorists which’s not true. Terrorists are terrorists. They do not belong to a religion or a country. And generalization is not fair by the way.
(Global Perspectives)
”As for the second verse, Muslims had to spread the religion of God, but if someone stood in their ways to prevent them from accomplishing their mission, they had the right to fight back. So it means fight those who initiate aggression.”
I’m shocked. You can spread your religion (claimed from God), and someone stood in your ways, you have the right to fight back??? Who the hell gave you this right??? Astonishing.
”I am made victorious by terror” is what one of your scriptures say. That seems so true.
I’m shocked. You can spread your religion (claimed from God), and someone stood in your ways, you have the right to fight back??? Who the hell gave you this right??? Astonishing.
”I am made victorious by terror” is what one of your scriptures say. That seems so true.
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya,I had interaction with many Muslim friends on such topics.First they try to avoid such discussions and if they agree,they don’t wants to listen any thing against.
Yesterday,in an horrible incident six Muslim youth enter in a house,within temple premises,and gang raped the wife of the Pujari,who was alone that time.
Even though Kota is a Hindu dominated area,such incidents by Muslim criminals,disturbs the peace and harmony in the area.
In my personal view more than 90% criminals are Muslims.
Yesterday,in an horrible incident six Muslim youth enter in a house,within temple premises,and gang raped the wife of the Pujari,who was alone that time.
Even though Kota is a Hindu dominated area,such incidents by Muslim criminals,disturbs the peace and harmony in the area.
In my personal view more than 90% criminals are Muslims.
(Global Perspectives)
But terrorists or no terrorists ,Pakistan is the front line state for the Islamic Ummah.
(Local Perspectives)
Hassan,don’t you think all these activities going on in the name of Islam are wrong.
Minor boys in the age group 12-18 yrs are getting training in the name of Jihad,is that right?
Young girls are prohibited for going school and women for working outside there house,is that part of Islam?
Minor boys in the age group 12-18 yrs are getting training in the name of Jihad,is that right?
Young girls are prohibited for going school and women for working outside there house,is that part of Islam?
(Global Perspectives)
Vijay
Hassan,surprising and shocking,its your comment.
Which one are you surprised and shocked about,is it this :But terrorists or no terrorists ,Pakistan is the front line state for the Islamic Ummah.
Please can you tell me exactly what is so shocking about it;perhaps you may be able to educate me,because to me this statement is just narrating of a simple fact.
Hassan,surprising and shocking,its your comment.
Which one are you surprised and shocked about,is it this :But terrorists or no terrorists ,Pakistan is the front line state for the Islamic Ummah.
Please can you tell me exactly what is so shocking about it;perhaps you may be able to educate me,because to me this statement is just narrating of a simple fact.
(Local Perspectives)
Hassan my dear friend,first go through your comments and then reply.
(Global Perspectives)
Pl go through this link of mine.
According to the FBI, the definition of terrorism is:
”Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”
The religion of Islam fulfills each and every criteria of the above-mentioned definition of terrorism. The following irrefutable facts and deductive logic will amply demonstrate this statement. Ever since Islam was founded it has left behind a legacy of violent atrocities and horrible crimes. The holy book of the Muslims, the Koran, contains specific instructions on how to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder in order to further the interests of Islam . It can clearly be called a specific instruction manual of terrorism.
http://www.instablogs.com/outer_permalink.php?p=islam-terrorism
According to the FBI, the definition of terrorism is:
”Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”
The religion of Islam fulfills each and every criteria of the above-mentioned definition of terrorism. The following irrefutable facts and deductive logic will amply demonstrate this statement. Ever since Islam was founded it has left behind a legacy of violent atrocities and horrible crimes. The holy book of the Muslims, the Koran, contains specific instructions on how to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder in order to further the interests of Islam . It can clearly be called a specific instruction manual of terrorism.
http://www.instablogs.com/outer_permalink.php?p=islam-terrorism
(Global Perspectives)
You’re just anti-Islam. I told you we(Muslims) would be glad to discuss with you all these verses you misinterpret their meanings. But you keep posting links from the same site which shows your ignorance.I could do the same and pick verses out of their contexts from any holy book and misinterpret their meanings to justify my hate against a certain religion.
Everything you said about Islam is a lie.
You focus on some verses which their meanings are misinterpreted by non-Muslims but ignore this verse for example:
”God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
And this hadith:
The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}
Everything you said about Islam is a lie.
You focus on some verses which their meanings are misinterpreted by non-Muslims but ignore this verse for example:
”God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
And this hadith:
The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}
(Global Perspectives)
Vijay, do not pay attention to some of the allegations here. Whenever it doesn’t support their agenda, such people start calling anyone as ’anti-Islam’.
It’s quite natural that you asked your doubts, but even asking doubts is anti-Islam!
Do you have any wonder now why democracy never sustains or exist in any Muslim country? :D
Vijay, it’s best you don’t ask such things. You have understood the truth. Still, if you want do check this. http://www.bhavishyapuran.blogspot.com
You have the right to believe in your scriptures!
It’s quite natural that you asked your doubts, but even asking doubts is anti-Islam!
Do you have any wonder now why democracy never sustains or exist in any Muslim country? :D
Vijay, it’s best you don’t ask such things. You have understood the truth. Still, if you want do check this. http://www.bhavishyapuran.blogspot.com
You have the right to believe in your scriptures!
(Global Perspectives)
You do not want Vijay to pay attention cause you do not want the truth. You just want all these false accusations directed at Islam and Muslims to be true. It is typical of someone like you who keeps posting links from anti-Islam sites or even so called Islamic sites run by non-Muslims which is laughable.
all I see here is criticizing just Islam , but not other religions which reminds me of something I read once” as long as you shine and have an effect on people, disapproval and disappointment will be your lot in life, a person who sits does not fall and nobody kicks a dead dog” You fear Islam cause you do not know what it is but you do know it has a powerful influence.
I do not see you criticize other religions. I do not see you condemning the terrorist attacks the Israelis committed against Palestinians in Gaza recently that even some Jews criticized but people like you which this verse describes ” deaf, dumb, blind, so they do not understand” won’t even see wrong from right. so I do not expect someone like you to understand what I try to say here. And thank God, I’m not someone who generalizes or stereotypes, otherwise I would say all Hindus are just like you. You just represent yourself, not all Hindus
all I see here is criticizing just Islam , but not other religions which reminds me of something I read once” as long as you shine and have an effect on people, disapproval and disappointment will be your lot in life, a person who sits does not fall and nobody kicks a dead dog” You fear Islam cause you do not know what it is but you do know it has a powerful influence.
I do not see you criticize other religions. I do not see you condemning the terrorist attacks the Israelis committed against Palestinians in Gaza recently that even some Jews criticized but people like you which this verse describes ” deaf, dumb, blind, so they do not understand” won’t even see wrong from right. so I do not expect someone like you to understand what I try to say here. And thank God, I’m not someone who generalizes or stereotypes, otherwise I would say all Hindus are just like you. You just represent yourself, not all Hindus
(Global Perspectives)
Almaha M’am,
I want Vijay to know the truth regarding Islam. But, the problem is when he asked something he was labeled anti-Islam. hence I said him it is best not to ask if some stereotypical responses are coming back.
And I have pasted link of an ancient Hindu scripture which gives the prediction of Islam. I suppose that isn’t anti-Islamic. Even though Saudi Arabia does not give freedom of religion to non-Muslims, that is not applicable on the internet. I have the right to read and believe in my scriptures.
@Vijay,
An interesting observation. How come knowing one’s religion have a such a expertly hateful impact?
I want Vijay to know the truth regarding Islam. But, the problem is when he asked something he was labeled anti-Islam. hence I said him it is best not to ask if some stereotypical responses are coming back.
And I have pasted link of an ancient Hindu scripture which gives the prediction of Islam. I suppose that isn’t anti-Islamic. Even though Saudi Arabia does not give freedom of religion to non-Muslims, that is not applicable on the internet. I have the right to read and believe in my scriptures.
@Vijay,
An interesting observation. How come knowing one’s religion have a such a expertly hateful impact?
(Global Perspectives)
Almaha,
”The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}”
Sowhy do Palestinian motherssend their children offas suicide bombers?Please do not get defensive, I am just trying to understand......
and can you explain what ”having a treaty with Muslims...” means?
thanks,
(Global Perspectives)
Almaha,
then why there so much hatred,violence and terrorism in the name of Islam.
chapter 23:39
Permission to take up arms is hereby granted to those who were attack, they have suffer injustice, God has the power to give them victory...
chapter 9:14
Fight them! God will chastise them at your hands, and we will lay them low and give you victory over them
chapter 9:29
Fight those who believe not in God, Nor acknowledge the religion of truth .... until they pay.... with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.... (this was the versus that a lot of people had misused the meaning)
chapter 9:5
fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, seize them, and take them captive and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war
(another versus that the meaning had been misused ) (Osama bin Laden had misused this versus himself)
then why there so much hatred,violence and terrorism in the name of Islam.
chapter 23:39
Permission to take up arms is hereby granted to those who were attack, they have suffer injustice, God has the power to give them victory...
chapter 9:14
Fight them! God will chastise them at your hands, and we will lay them low and give you victory over them
chapter 9:29
Fight those who believe not in God, Nor acknowledge the religion of truth .... until they pay.... with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.... (this was the versus that a lot of people had misused the meaning)
chapter 9:5
fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, seize them, and take them captive and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war
(another versus that the meaning had been misused ) (Osama bin Laden had misused this versus himself)
(Global Perspectives)
Vijay: Thank you for asking me to explain these verses. I will explain to you their meanings . After reading, you can check from Islamic sites and see if what I said is true.
Most verses you quoted are from chapter 9 which you did not read from the beginning because the first verse talks about the treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks (Pagans) of Mecca who used to persecute the Muslims who as of yet had not retaliated.
In the next verse The Meccans are given four months time to set things right otherwise a declaration of War and coming to verse [9:5]
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
ٍif you read this in context we know that this statement was made in the battle field. it is directed at certain people who did not keep their treaty and who persecuted Muslims. they were even given time to leave but if they did not, then Muslims had the right to fight them. But what you did is you quoted what you wanted. You did not mention what is before ”fight and slay the pagans”, Why? is this what someone who really wants to know the truth and learns does? Or is it someone who quotes what he wants to justify his hate against Islam? Is this fair?
About verse 14 from the same chapter which again has to be looked at in its full context, you have to read from verse 6 and see what it means:
6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge
(Muslims are ordered to protect the disbelievers and not only that but to take them to a place of safety)
7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the Sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous
(If people are honest then respect the honesty and remain truthful with the non believers - God loves the truthful)
8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked
(God is telling the Muslims to beware of the dishonest unbelievers and to avoid making agreements with them as they may breach)
9. The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done
(The people have distorted the truth and promoted evil)
10.. In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds
(The dishonest don’t respect their family ties or friendship let alone a covenant with the believers)
11.. But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand
(Despite this if these dishonest people repent then forgive them as they are your brothers)
12.. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith, fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained
(But if they break an agreement and ATTACK YOU FIRST they show the promises they made mean nothing)
13.. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
(Should you not defend yourself against people who commit such actions, those who break agreements and make war on you?)
14Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers.,
(You should fight such people and restore order and punish the traitors for their actions)
I think it is clear now. I quoted the verses before the one you quoted so you could understand the meaning. its not just a matter of killing disbelievers. The Quran tells us to protect them, but to fight back if we are attacked first. This is NOT terrorism, and to quote this verse out of context is unfair.
As for 9: 29, it is about the Jews who did not keep their treaty with Muslims and who joined forces with polytheists and hypocrites and fought against Muslims.
finally,regarding 23:39, you got the number wrong cause this the verse that has this number ”(The prophet) said: ”O my Lord! help me: for that they accuse me of falsehood.””
I do not recall the number of the verse you quoted but I know the meaning. It means you are allowed to be prepared in case your enemy is planning to fight you.
To understand meanings of verses in the Quran, you must read the whole verses from the beginning till the end . And you also need to read the historical backgrounds of why verses were revealed.
Islam is a religion of justice. It forbids attacking. But if you are attacked, then you have the right to defend yourself. This is called justice, not terrorism. As why there are Muslim terrorists. Terrorists are terrorists like I said before. They can pick verses out of their contexts from any holy book to justify their criminal acts.
There are many Christian, Jewish, and Hindu terrorist organizations. Do their religions ask them to commit such acts
Most verses you quoted are from chapter 9 which you did not read from the beginning because the first verse talks about the treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks (Pagans) of Mecca who used to persecute the Muslims who as of yet had not retaliated.
In the next verse The Meccans are given four months time to set things right otherwise a declaration of War and coming to verse [9:5]
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
ٍif you read this in context we know that this statement was made in the battle field. it is directed at certain people who did not keep their treaty and who persecuted Muslims. they were even given time to leave but if they did not, then Muslims had the right to fight them. But what you did is you quoted what you wanted. You did not mention what is before ”fight and slay the pagans”, Why? is this what someone who really wants to know the truth and learns does? Or is it someone who quotes what he wants to justify his hate against Islam? Is this fair?
About verse 14 from the same chapter which again has to be looked at in its full context, you have to read from verse 6 and see what it means:
6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge
(Muslims are ordered to protect the disbelievers and not only that but to take them to a place of safety)
7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the Sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous
(If people are honest then respect the honesty and remain truthful with the non believers - God loves the truthful)
8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked
(God is telling the Muslims to beware of the dishonest unbelievers and to avoid making agreements with them as they may breach)
9. The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done
(The people have distorted the truth and promoted evil)
10.. In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds
(The dishonest don’t respect their family ties or friendship let alone a covenant with the believers)
11.. But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand
(Despite this if these dishonest people repent then forgive them as they are your brothers)
12.. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith, fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained
(But if they break an agreement and ATTACK YOU FIRST they show the promises they made mean nothing)
13.. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
(Should you not defend yourself against people who commit such actions, those who break agreements and make war on you?)
14Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers.,
(You should fight such people and restore order and punish the traitors for their actions)
I think it is clear now. I quoted the verses before the one you quoted so you could understand the meaning. its not just a matter of killing disbelievers. The Quran tells us to protect them, but to fight back if we are attacked first. This is NOT terrorism, and to quote this verse out of context is unfair.
As for 9: 29, it is about the Jews who did not keep their treaty with Muslims and who joined forces with polytheists and hypocrites and fought against Muslims.
finally,regarding 23:39, you got the number wrong cause this the verse that has this number ”(The prophet) said: ”O my Lord! help me: for that they accuse me of falsehood.””
I do not recall the number of the verse you quoted but I know the meaning. It means you are allowed to be prepared in case your enemy is planning to fight you.
To understand meanings of verses in the Quran, you must read the whole verses from the beginning till the end . And you also need to read the historical backgrounds of why verses were revealed.
Islam is a religion of justice. It forbids attacking. But if you are attacked, then you have the right to defend yourself. This is called justice, not terrorism. As why there are Muslim terrorists. Terrorists are terrorists like I said before. They can pick verses out of their contexts from any holy book to justify their criminal acts.
There are many Christian, Jewish, and Hindu terrorist organizations. Do their religions ask them to commit such acts
(Global Perspectives)
Now the question arises
Who’ll protect Pakistan from Taliban?
Here in India,the Muslim’s of Mumbai,refused to provide even an inch of land in their cemetery for the burial of the body of attackers of Mmumbai and the bodies are still lying unclaimed,even by Pakistan.
Who’ll protect Pakistan from Taliban?
Here in India,the Muslim’s of Mumbai,refused to provide even an inch of land in their cemetery for the burial of the body of attackers of Mmumbai and the bodies are still lying unclaimed,even by Pakistan.
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya,
”Whenever it doesnt support their agenda, such people start calling anyone as anti-Islam.
Its quite natural that you asked your doubts, but even asking doubts is anti-Islam!” So true, they twist what you say to suir their own agenda, always claiming you take things out of context, which is just B.S. And then if they have no answers they call you Islamaphobic.. Truly sad that they can not tolerate other religions. Check this site out... it’s by an ex-Muslim talks about how to debate...http://www.challenging-islam.org/articles/warraq-debate-muslims.htm. Again, I have no problems with Islam, per se, what I do have a problem with is the fact that they have a problem with me.
(Global Perspectives)
Almaha,
You’ll find good and bad in all community and societies.If you say its misinterpretation,then whats about those misguided Muslim youths and who are misguiding them.
There are some good Muslim organization also,
Pl go through this link
http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/faqs.html
You’ll find good and bad in all community and societies.If you say its misinterpretation,then whats about those misguided Muslim youths and who are misguiding them.
There are some good Muslim organization also,
Pl go through this link
http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/faqs.html
(Global Perspectives)
Thanks Ameya,its not just intresting but very very interesting to know about the Bhavishyapuran.
Pl go through this
http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
Pl go through this
http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
(Global Perspectives)
Ameya,Dharm-Charcha,that is discussion on religion is a healthy practice in almost all religions except Islam.
There are only few Muslims who speaks openly about Islam like Salman Rushdie but such person also gets Fatwa.
There are only few Muslims who speaks openly about Islam like Salman Rushdie but such person also gets Fatwa.
(Global Perspectives)
When the Pakistan Govt is saying that they’ve given ”Blank Cheque” to China for discussion on behalf of Pakistan,then what’s the status of the citizen of Pakistan.
(Global Perspectives)
Now the question arises
Who’ll protect Pakistan from Taliban?
Here in India,the Muslim’s of Mumbai,refused to provide even an inch of land in their cemetery for the burial of the body of attackers of Mmumbai and the bodies are still lying unclaimed,even by Pakistan.
Who’ll protect Pakistan from Taliban?
Here in India,the Muslim’s of Mumbai,refused to provide even an inch of land in their cemetery for the burial of the body of attackers of Mmumbai and the bodies are still lying unclaimed,even by Pakistan.
(Global Perspectives)
Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority that can call for each citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of only one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment, in all cases whatsoever?
If ”all men by nature are equally free and independent,” they are to be considered as retaining an ”equal right to free exercise of religion, according to dictates of conscience.” While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us...
Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution. Enquire of the teachers of Christianity for the ages in which it appeared in its greatest lustre; those of every sect point to the ages prior to incorporation with civil policy. Propose a restoration of this primitive state, in which its teachers depended on the voluntary rewards of their flocks; many of them predict its downfall...
What influences, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been seen the guardians of liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”
- Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments,” by James Madison
Long back I have written some article on this same platform.
1 Is there any traces of Gandhi still in Pakistan....which was just to mention that whether..Non-Violence is still relevent there or not?
2.Where is Dawood Ibrahim and whats he’s doing?
That was indicative of the dreaded deed....?Mumbai attack?
As far as the picture I get about Pakistan sitting here in India, I think the society is divided into two sections.
One; who are turning to more and more fundamentalism and another; towards a progressive lifestyle.
if the economy doesn’t do good, people like you in the second category will be in very small numbers.
And yes, there is hardly any Islamic country that has given space to minorities. Only exceptions I find are Egypt and Indonesia. Hope things will change for the better. Keep spreading your message!
The most beautiful book ”Tatvarth Sutra”[Written on Civilisation,Culture and Non-Violence],which is on the principals of ’live and lets others to live’[Jio aur Jeene Do] was originated at Taxila[Takshshila].
Isn’t it belongs to the history of Pakistan,together with the History of Harappa and Mohun-Jo-Daro,Katas Raj,where the Pandava’s learned there first lesson of life.
This is true Karim.The point is we have two different approaches here to the choice of the leader of the day.
Long back I have written some article on this same platform.
1 Is there any traces of Gandhi still in Pakistan....which was just to mention that whether..Non-Violence is still relevent there or not?
2.Where is Dawood Ibrahim and whats he’s doing?
That was indicative of the dreaded deed....?Mumbai attack?